[Video]

[vivelavenir]

A query, for the ship...

I wonder, with what we do know about our predicament; and I admit, my knowledge is little when it comes to the gadgetry and computations that the running of this vessel requires; and what we do know about M. 'Smiley', as he is like to be called...

Well, how to put this?

[A pause and a breath, before tilting his head just softly and staring up at the camera.]

Smiley may not be human, is it so? This has been presented to me as an option. Not human, but digital?

And he has been upon the networks, in order to mock us. But the mocking has had a defined purpose, I have seen. Threats, that we "had better" fix problems-- both technical, and human in the case of the mutineer-- before it costs us our lives. That we "had better" keep the ship running. Yet, if it were not his will that it be fixed too, were it not in his best interest also, would he not use fear as a means of making us do his bidding?

If Smiley would guide us to to save our lives by saving the ship; perhaps it may mean that it is the improper course of action, after all? Perhaps we ensure his-- or it's-- safety by ensuring our own? And in doing so, we too may be responsible in part for leaving this vessel open to stealing more lives from their homes, more people from their families...

In other words, the question I would like to pose is this: If we knew, for fact, that the only way to stop the terrors on this ship and the kidnappings seen each month was in destroying the ship, thus protecting any future targets-- be they like us, or like those pirates, who were seen to summary execution...

Would you be willing to pay that price, to see that the right thing be done?

Dulce et decorum est pro mores mori.


Forgive me, if it is too morbid in thought. The question is surely a difficult one.

Comments

Video:

[but_civilization]

A thousand times, yes. I most certainly would.

[Combeferre's face is serious as meets Jehan's gaze onscreen.]

We spoke the other day, the ah...senator from space and I on issues like this. Leaving behind freedom for safety. I know that I, and many of us, would not much like to do so, should we have another way.

[vivelavenir]

[A soft smile at that admission, for it could be all but expected from this friend in particular.]

A senator... from space? Perhaps you mean Monsieur Organa? A very kind and wise sort of man to discuss with, if I recall.

I wonder though, Michel; if you would let me take the question a step further for you, in our trust of one another; would you still be so willing if others were not?

I, for one, agree with your line of thinking. If it should cut my life and my happiness short to destroy something so unnatural, that might destroy infinite-other's lives and happinesses, well, then. I should think I must do so.

However, if half the ship were to disagree, and to prefer their safety to such a drastic option... would you still be so bold, and willing? I think I should not be. I think that the democratic approach cannot possibly be taken, in matters where others lives are at stake. It is the difference between rights and dignity. If ninety-percent of the ships populous agrees with us, but ten-percent does not... is it right to sacrifice the will of the ten, to accomplish the goal of the ninety?

I don't ask to judge, of course. Merely to discuss. Your opinion is ever-valuable to me.

[but_civilization]

Rather. He seems remarkable indeed, though the fine points and details of his world do rather escape me.

[And he is falling silent as Jehan asks that question, a little frown crossing his face.]

In that case, action would be wrong for as long as it hurt those who did not wish to be involved. There can be no forcing those who do not wish to take part in things of such nature, but were there some way to ensure they were protected...

Well, it is the sort of thing better left to compromise than to one absolute or other. If it WERE so strong an absolute, then I should have no choice but to allow things to continue. I think too, that we are different, you, and I, our friends, the others who've faced death. It is no longer so much of an unknown for us now,it does not leave so much to fear or worry at. I cannot imagine many living men for whom it is not at least something of a concern and obviously, in this proposal...

It would become a question of the greater wrong, though I would still feel badly sacrificing either way.

[vivelavenir]

I see. Your answer seems reasonable and sensible, as ever you are.

Still, I might contend that having faced death; as surely, some other passengers have; introduces a new sort of conundrum, a more selfish worry of the heart. Namely this: if we are all to know that this ship can carry the dead onto its wings, than I wonder at the philosophy that destroying it may not rob loved ones of second-lives? It had not occurred to me before speaking to you, but think of it as so:

If we were to say, destroy the ship, we would know for certain that Feuilly, nor Joly, nor Bossuet would ever come aboard it. It is not difficult for us, who think them in a better place, and know their hearts well enough that they would agree with our course of action.

But what of the mother aboard, who has lost her child in life? Even if she does not fear death, perhaps she'd look upon it as condemning her child a path at life, even if the path is not optimal.

I find it curious; if debasing and unnatural; how all this technology might work, that it has real power over souls. It's chilling, truly.

[but_civilization]

A more selfish...ah. Now that you mention it, I do see what you wonder. I'd also ask how it is that those of who HAVE made their way have done so. There are so many others who have not, or those who are the only person from their world here.

We would know, yes. Would that be a comfort or a curse? I never can decide if subjecting them to this would be good or not, and my God, so much worse for a parent, or, had Eponine come here alone this time, for her as well, I think. Not optimal but...something of a chance. I do wonder what chance we are being given here at that. IS it for a new life, or is that some carrot being dangled in our faces so we keep walking forward?

Very chilling. I dislike it.

[majestyofthethrone]

He's artificial intelligence. He works on a system of binary variables that calculate his decisions.

[vivelavenir]

Seraphim, it's always a pleasure to see you...

Ah. I am not entirely sure I follow the meaning of your words; he is limited, you mean? And yet, he shows some personality, and some cleverness in his calculations.

Is he incapable or learning, or growth?

[majestyofthethrone]

Hello.

Well, okay, let me see if I can put it in simpler terms.

Say that everything you do is governed by a yes/no answer. 1/0. Binary, right? Two answers. That's how humans started to communicate with machines. We would posit a query, and the machine was programmed to respond with a 1/0 answer.

So the more complex a machine, the more 1/0 answers it has.

Now AIs, in theory (and this is only theory for me because in my world AIs are very simple) or artificial intelligences are so advanced - they contain so many 1/0 answers that they replicate human conditions. And some AIs, then, are capable of formulating their own 1/0 answers based on data that they harvest from human/interface interaction. So they're in theory capable of learning.

That's really simplistic, and it's actually a lot more complicated than that, but it's a way to start thinking about how Smiley might work. But like I said. I've never seen an AI that advanced.

Personality can be programmed, and so can cleverness, based on the programmer who designed him.

[vivelavenir]

I see. I do believe I follow, thank you for that example and the clarification.

In effect, then, it would differ from a human purely in the stuff of its making, and in its lack of soul? But I might ask of you, what type of body does an AI then have? Or might it truly be anything; as simple as our communication devices, as complex as something which looks like you or I?

And have we any idea of who it was that did create him, or for what purpose?

Excuse my many questions.

[majestyofthethrone]

It's okay.

Well, an AI doesn't necessarily have a body. It has circuitry and data, but data only exists where the information is stored. It might look like a box, or maybe like a dot, depending on how advanced the data storage system is. And because it moves through data, it can move into our communicators, or in the ship.

But at some point the idea is that someone programmed him. AIs don't spontaneously manifest.

video;

[jondrette]

No.

I do not know much about which you speak of, Jean, but I would not.

[vivelavenir]

Ah.

[Well here was his point to Combeferre, proven manifest.

He knew from his previous experience better than to debate with Eponine; to be gentle, and to listen, where words might otherwise fail.]

I can surely understand the sentiment, Eponine.

Have you been well?

[jondrette]

I have given my life once. What little it did: it brought me here. And I gave my life for the man I love. Here? No.

[At least he can understand the sentiment.]

Better, yes. This place is strange, but I am learning.

[vivelavenir]

That man lived on, from what I have heard. In your noble sacrifice, you created the only survivor.

[Gently.]

It was a thing of courage, your act.

I acquiesce that this place is filled with its oddities; but it warms me to know you settle into it well.

[jondrette]

He... he lives.

[She pulls away from her device, setting it down. She can't look at Jehan right now, she needs to process this. Marius Pontmercy lived. And that meant, that, perhaps, he would find Cosette. They would be together. Yes, she had wanted to save his life, and gave him the letter in her last moments. But... she had lured him there to die. And she could not forget that.

Stepping away from the device, she moves herself to another room, letting it continue to run, pointed at her ceiling. Once in her bathroom, she brings her fist to her mouth and bites down, before screaming around her hand, muffling the noise. When the sound died, she did so again, tears coming to her dark eyes. He lived, he lived. He would never come here. He would be with his Cosette. and she was dead, here on this ship with these people who claimed to know her. No, no, this was too much.]

[daringwaistcoats]

It is a thought.

[All the furrowed brows, pondering this now. But his answer is resolute, and his gaze steady enough.]

That it decidedly ends his reign of terror, or stalls it for the time being, you would have my vote.

Yet these are not soldiers you are asking to give their lives, and many of them, ourselves included, have been given a second chance to start again, to greater ends, even, when they did not believe themselves to have deserved them before. Destroying the ship would get a thorn's prick out of my side, but it unfairly plucks the petals of others'.

There will have to be another way.

[vivelavenir]

I am not asking any to give their lives, I am merely asking in tones of the hypothetical. It is hardly a call to arms, nor ultimatum. I should not seek on the opinions of a majority to cast to doom the opinions of the minority either, if all were to be in agreement with you.

[For he had not said what his own opinion was, though Bahorel might know it already.]

We shall hope so.

[daringwaistcoats]

Of course not--.

[He started, but hesitated just as he was about to joke that the poet was no Enjolras. It seemed a bit gauche, especially after all that they had gone through, especially now that the man was gone. As such, his statement fell short of both joke and statement; it was probably better that way, anyway.]

It's certainly a different perspective to take on the threat at hand, though; it simply warrants a better solution.

[And a sober but somewhat warning look, because, yeah, he knows.]

We must make it so.

[vivelavenir]

It does, yes, but to come to a greater conclusion involves initiating the discussion, at least. Perhaps in a provocative manner, as it seems I have done; though perhaps I should have better left that to more provocative men?

[A nod.]

We shall try. But not at the cost of ourselves this time, were we able to help it.

If not, then it is already proven that we are ready to be at arms.

[daringwaistcoats]

There are few men in this world more provocative than you when it comes to initiating the tougher discussions, petit.

[A snort of a laugh, though his expression remains far more sober than his tone.]

Certainly. If we're good for anything, it is producing the insurrection, no?

But we will come out on top this time; I am sure of it.

video;

[wroughtsteel]

[What an odd tale he tells, and a mention of someone - or something, it seems - that she herself has not yet heard of. Smiley, she takes mental note of the name, for future reference should she need it.

She greets him with a slight tilt of her head before answering the inquiry promptly.]

I would be willing to pay such price, however I would not want to see it happen to others in this ship. Not everyone may feel this way, not to mention there are a few children here as well, and acting upon such premise may mean that they will suffer the same consequences as us, whether by relation or by punishment.

I would not want to have the lives or deaths of anyone else hanging heavy in my conscience.

[Video]

[vivelavenir]

Mademoiselle.

[A slight bow of his head in greeting, to this face he does not know.]

I am inclined to agree with you. Autonomy of the innocent and is of utmost importance, and violence even self-inflicted with noble cause is better avoided, if possible. I think, were it not a decision that all agreed upon, it could not be carried out. It would be too unfair, even if it were effective.

You speak with wisdom, I believe.

[Video]

[wroughtsteel]

Only common sense, I would like to think, yet I have met some before who do not possess any kind of compassion or care for others. But I thank you nonetheless.

[A tilt of her head.] Those words you last spoke-- what is it that they mean? I have never heard such tongue before.

[Video]

[vivelavenir]

We might hope it should always be so.

They are Latin, Mademoiselle-- a dead language even in my own time, but one in which the classic texts are written. Poetry, philosophy, politics.

The famed statement is from Horace's Odes, an epic poem of which I am familiar. The original replaces mores with patria, to mean:
'It is sweeter and more fitting to live for one's country.'

But I have lived such a life, and died such a death. I think it may be sweeter to live with and for morality.

[Video]

[wroughtsteel]

[It is not the first time she meets someone here who has died back home, yet she cannot spare a hint of sadness to her eye when he says it. But she does not mention it, not wanting to bring such memory to the surface.]

To one, or another: I cannot say that I myself ever felt at any moment that my country was not worth living or giving my life for. Still today it is a place true to me, and I would pay such price a thousand times over, so for me it is possible to do so for both country and morality. But I understand too that not all must feel this way, and not all lands are like my own home.